Congressman To DHS: You're Going Through 1,000 More Rounds Per Person Than The Army

Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah-3rd District) had serious questions for DHS representatives on Thursday. Fox News reports:

Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz said Thursday that the Department of Homeland Security is using roughly 1,000 rounds of ammunition more per person than the U.S. Army, as he and other lawmakers sharply questioned DHS officials on their "massive" bullet buys.

"It is entirely … inexplicable why the Department of Homeland Security needs so much ammunition," Chaffetz, R-Utah, said at a hearing.

The hearing itself was unusual, as questions about the department's ammunition purchases until recently had bubbled largely under the radar — on blogs and in the occasional news article. But as the Department of Homeland Security found itself publicly defending the purchases, lawmakers gradually showed more interest in the issue.

Chaffetz' questions were about waste and accountability. He was able to structure a solid line of questioning based upon the fact that DHS is requiring 1000 more rounds per agent than the United States Army requires for one of its soldiers:

Chaffetz, who chairs one of the House oversight subcommittees holding the hearing Thursday, revealed that the department currently has more than 260 million rounds in stock. He said the department bought more than 103 million rounds in 2012 and used 116 million that same year — among roughly 70,000 agents.

Comparing that with the small-arms purchases procured by the U.S. Army, he said the DHS is churning through between 1,300 and 1,600 rounds per officer, while the U.S. Army goes through roughly 350 rounds per soldier.

He noted that is "roughly 1,000 rounds more per person."

"Their officers use what seems to be an exorbitant amount of ammunition," he said.

Source: Fox News

Chaffetz released a video of his participation in the hearing late Thursday. He was able to get a startling admission that ICE agents used less than 100 total rounds of ammunition in the line of duty in 2012.

Chaffetz also exposed that he is in receipt of"emails and web postings" from Customs and Border Patrol agents who say that they are getting zero rounds of ammunition for training.

Here is an exact quote from Humberto Medina in response to Chaffetz:

"That is not accurate. What has happened is in recent days there has been a change in the policy. It's actually not really a change in the policy. The policy permits the issuance of practice rounds, not training rounds, practice rounds that an individual officer can have and take with them to practice on their own time."

Unfortunately Medina's answer was accepted and Chaffetz moved on. Think about what Humberto Medina just revealed.

Practice rounds that DHS agents can take home? What kind of policy is that? If you are looking to curb waste then you may have just found your answer Mr. Chaffetz. Where is the accountability when a DHS agent takes home a box of ammunition or several boxes for "practice?" Who is to say that the agent used the "practice rounds" he or she was issued before asking for more "practice" rounds?

Does an agent have to provide proof that they went to a firing range and discharged these rounds? That is a question that needs to be asked and I hope that by some twist of fate this article is seen by the right pair of eyes who will ask the question.

Maybe it's not ONLY the DHS that is stockpiling ammunition. Maybe it's ALSO DHS agents who are stockpiling ammunition for personal use.

Chaffetz goes on to state that over 14 million rounds were used for operational purposes of Customs and Border Patrol agents despite the fact that they rarely fire their guns. He states to Medina that, "It seems like it's just walking out the door."

Chaffetz went on to question Dr. Nayak about the 1 Billion plus round ammunition purchase options that DHS has for the next 5 years and was unable to secure a definitive answer.

Up until today I had zero doubt in the stories I had been hearing about the massive DHS ammunition build up. I have seen the documents and I know that the purchases, contracts and open bids are real. I know that the seriousness of the issue goes beyond the sheer volume of ammunition purchases as well. The DHS is ordering "hollow point" bullets and contracting private companies to make targets of women, children and senior citizens. However, today I find myself asking a brand new question which deserves an answer.

What if it is not solely the Department of Homeland Security that is stockpiling ammunition? What if it is also DHS agents who, for all intents and purposes, are stealing from their employer and making off with free ammunition for "personal use?"

This would certainly be a serious issue that would need to be addressed, but it is far less serious than The DHS hording ammunition to use against the American people in a "police state" scenario. I will not discount that possibility either. There is too much evidence to suggest that it is a possibility.

We want nothing but the truth. Maybe "employee theft" is part of the issue.

I'm not sure this truly qualifies as employee theft since the policy that Humberto Medina talks about is DHS supported. Could it be that after all of the talk of massive build ups and the DHS deliberately trying to cause an ammunition shortage that part of the answer lies in just another bad example of government waste? And of unscrupulous employees who have a part in that waste?

Time will tell. Nothing would surprise me at this point but there is a possibility that some morally challenged employees have been taking advantage of DHS policies.

I wonder if one of those guys would sell me a few boxes of ammo?

Let's not lose focus. I see this as a development, but it does not explain the "hollow point" bullets that are illegal in international warfare.  I would certainly hope that DHS agents are not allowed to take hollow points home. I am convinced of very little at this point.

But I am convinced that DHS just revealed a serious accountability issue. So far as I know the United States Army doesn't provide its soldiers with rounds of live ammunition to take home and "practice" with while on leave.

Are these agents required to prove that they are using the ammunition that they take home? The American people deserve an answer to that question.

How much "practice" ammo does The Department of Homeland Security send home with its agents each year?

With all due respect to Representative Chaffetz, it may be time to call in the big guns. If you need to get to the root of a "practice" issue there is only one authority who can be trusted. I think Allen Iverson is the man to handle the next round of questions for The Department of Homeland Security.

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  • Greg137

    One of several things is happening...
    1. department of homeland security agents don't trust their own employers and they are fearful for their own households...
    2. government agents are hiding their incompetence at gun usage by making themselves look incompetent at security..... Yes, they are ashamed of their lack of skill with guns, either that or, they are drunk or stoned during target practice..... (I am still trying to figure that one out)...
    3. Obama hired either cartel members, Al-quida agents, mafia memebers, or gang members to work for the department of homeland security, and the thugs are stealing the ammo to carry out crimes with it...
    4. Obama might be planning a war against America, and fears the army willl side with the people(which could happen given that Obama is trying to purge the military of Soldiers that are loyal to the Constitution and the American people, but if word gets out, and he now realises that he has to try to build a secret secondary army instead)[aluminum tin hats aside]....
    5. Al-quida is being armed by Obama and he is trying to hide the effort....
    6. any combination of the above could also be happening at once...
    There could be other reaons too, but I can't think of anymore....

  • Jeff Maehr

    Just more lies... what a sack of s--t... traitor, and he should be in prison along with about 10,000 other traitors.

  • bigjack1

    Why in the hell can't someone get a straight answer out of these lying bums. Just another example of the double talk and cover-up that goes on in Washington. And this is the tip of the iceberg called government, can you imagine this being multiplied by all the departments that make up the federal, state and local governments. What is also frustrating is the lack of anything being done about the obvious con jobs being spilled. These obvious life long bureaucrats keep their jobs and policies as business as usual. John Q Public can ask more probing questions.

  • Coaster

    I think many haven't contemplated this.

    Are they're wanting that quantity of HOLLOW POINT ammo to thwart an uprising? Yes but also think about this.

    What better way to keep ammo out of the hands of the nations' gun owners?

    They petition bids on a contract for 1.8 billion rounds of hollow point ammo with all of the producers they can. The manufacturers submit bids to manufacture said ammo. The alphabet agencies accept ALL bids and then what does that do? In order for the manufacturers to deliver said quantities of ammo, means that they have to go into around the clock production just to meet the contract requirement. What does that do to the gun owners of our nation? The manufacturers hands are now tied into producing their ammo to these agencies and NOT to the U.S. Citizenry.

    Everyone that needs ammo can't find it. The shelves are cleaned out on most everything that the majority of gun owners want and need.

    What is needed is for EVERY citizen that needs ammo contact gun groups of all sorts and band together as a stronger unit and demand that ALL ammo manufacturers do a 50/50 split in their production. 50% to cover their contract obligation........and the other 50% to cover the needs of the American Citizenry.

    So, get to it everyone. Try to find a way to get these ammo producers on track for "We The People".

    I commend Rep. Jason Chaffetz for taking the DHS on. Others need to join in with him. Contact your Representative and demand he/she get on board with this Representative.

  • Darlene Thecolaratlady

    If congress is that upset, then DRASTICALLY cut their budgets,make it to where ANY purchases must be thoroughly detailed along with the reasons why they need these items so it can either be approved or not approved, require detailed receipts of what they are buying.and start sending some heads of agencies to jail for buying THAT much

    • Ron Hunt

      Why hasn't sequester taken effect, like it has with the air tower employees?

  • netandyawho

    Lets face it. The whole government is the problem. Impeach all of them now!

  • tom nogaro

    it's easy, with the new math: 1000 is 1 bullet per person, base 1000, in a pre-hyperinflationary zimbabwayan system run by the mathematic grand wizard bernank.

  • danclamage

    What if DHS is actually shipping all those rounds to Mexican drug cartels or Al Qaeda terrorists? You know like Holder and Obama did with "assault" rifles.

  • John Cherish

    Using that many rounds they must be so poorly trained they can't hit the targets. The DHS should be disbanded they have not prevented any terrorist attacks probably because they are the terroists

    • Rick

      No, not disbanded John, just re-organized under another Tom Ridge and a new Patriot President with some balls.

    • Wayne Bauer

      Sorry they are actually good for NOTHING, and nothing but another federal waste. They have consolidated nothing as we were told they would, absolute waste, And the prince of waste and incompetence

  • Guest

    I advise all Americans to locate and seize all rounds of ammunition DHS is hoarding up in an attempt to execute martial law under Obama's orders to respond to a contrived catastrophe. We the People paid for them, we own them, we are reclaiming them. They will certainly be put to good use in our hands as opposed to federal agents attempting to corral us.

  • John Sweet

    Ask who they are arming, that is a better question. after all how many shoot outs have the Homeland Security people had that it took that many rounds per employee?

    • R.Young

      Either they had better start training properly or just like some police forces they could't hit the broad side of a barn standing six inches away from it!

    • John Sweet

      what do they care? enough shooting in that direction will do the job, making them all move faster to the north.

    • R.Young

      There are many that do care for if and when TSHTF, I want somebody LEO OATH KEEPER) who can shoot just as well as I can standing with me. On the other side of the coin, if they cant hit the barn then they can't hit us unless they are using bombs or nukes!

    • John Sweet

      I want the military to follow their oaths and remove them from office to protect the constitution and the nation from them

    • Ron Hunt

      Why do you think they want to make the illegal drug dealers from south of the border, legal citizens. Walla!!!! O-bomb-us' instant million man civilian army. !!!!

  • texan texan

    Do there was a hearing and answers. Then the Congressman brings up unnamed sources and things he has heard. Takes more than that. Obviously, anyone can investigate anything. Obviously, doesn't amount to anything other than waste taxpayer money. Let's get some facts and do your impeachment thing. One more thing for the 4+ years of chanting Impeach Obama. You guys are awesome.

    • John Cherish

      I have figured you out Texan are here to stoke the fires

  • Jack Deth

    Memo to DHS and IRS:

    During the Carter years. Military, Guard and Reserves qualified with M-16s adapted to .22 long rifle rounds due to the expense of 5.56 and .223 ammunition.

    Now DHS and IRS is buying up Hollow Point huge amounts of pistol ammunition in bulk?

    Hollow point ammunition is NOT for practice!

    • Chicot

      Could it be that is one way to control the sell of ammo to the general public or to legal gun owners. It is almost to even be able to find and purchase even 22 shells let along other ammo. Also police across the country are having a hard time procuring the necessary ammo they need for their day to day operation and training.

    • Rick

      My question is Chicot; Why doesn't the ammo companies just limit the amount of ammo they sell to the govment?

    • R.Young

      What and lose those good Government contracts and go out of Business!

    • Darlene Thecolaratlady

      no they wouldnt, the public,police depts would be buying since police cant even get what they need, theres more americans that would love to be able to purchase ammo that would make up the difference

    • R.Young

      Not to worry about the Police departments, once they are taken over by the DHS & TSA they too will have all the Ammo they need!

    • Daniel Allison

      They would lose their license from the BATFE to manufacture ammo. They would be out of business.

    • Deborah S. R. Delp

      The answer Rick is GREED!!

    • Jack Deth



      I've heard no complaints from Chicago, DC, L.A., Dallas, Houston, Miami, Boulder, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, Manhattan, Arlington and Fairfax, VA, Detroit, or Prince Georges' County MD. Home of the most "Shoot First" cops on the east coast.