UPS Discriminates Against Boy Scouts As They Discriminate Against Homosexuals

The shipping giant United Parcel Service has now openly come out and said it will not longer give money to organizations that freely discriminate against homosexuals and specifically it targeted the Boy Scouts of America. UPS become the second major corporation to strip funding from the scouts.

According to Fox News,

The UPS Foundation made the change Thursday after an online petition protesting its annual grants to the Boy Scouts attracted more than 80,000 signatures. UPS, based in Atlanta, follows computer chip maker Intel in withdrawing corporate support for the Boy Scouts.

The UPS Foundation gave more than $85,000 to the Boy Scouts in 2011, according to its federal tax return.

Federal tax returns for 2011 for Intel, the world's largest chip maker, were not immediately available. Some media reported the Santa Clara, Calif.-based company as giving hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years.

The UPS spokeswoman Kristen Petralla said that in order for groups to receive foundation grants they will have to adhere to the same standards that UPS does by not discriminating on the ground of race, religion, disability or sexual orientation.

"We promote an environment of diversity and inclusion," Petrella said Monday. "UPS is a company that does the right things for the right reasons."

Uh huh, sure you do.

Let's see, there is a thing we reference known as the freedom of association. It's derived from the First Amendment which reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now most people read into that simply that people can protest the government and that most certainly is part of its meaning. However, it goes much deeper than that.

Judge Andrew Napolitano, in his book It Is Dangerous To Be Right When The Government Is Wrong, writes on page 54:

"...private entities - both individuals and private business - have the fundamental right to associate, and alternatively, the right not to associate. Conversely, public entities - like the government - do not have this natural right because the state is a fundamentally different kind of unit.

Free individuals have the right to choose the people with whom they associate. The corollary of that right is free persons can choose the people with whom they do not associate. And to take it a step further, the right not to associate with others is synonymous with the right to discriminate against others. Because we are free individuals with mental capabilities and decision-making skills, these choices to associate and discriminate are ours, and the government must not interfere. In fact, the government exists to protect this right to discriminate.

While the right to discriminate may sound wrong or even immoral, this is not the case at all. Every day, we make discriminating decisions that result in an exclusion of some kind. When I invite a small group of friends to my home, some of my larger group of friends are included, and some are not. When I have a pizza delivered, I choose one restaurant and eliminate the other options. When I hire a new staff member, I hire one person and reject the other applicants. When I board the subway, I choose to sit in the seat next to one person over a seat next to another person. When we say that a person has 'discriminating taste,' it signifies a good quality - that she has sophisticated style.

If we did not have the right to make these discriminating choices (which always result in some kind of exclusion), we would be the victims of force or coercion."

Even the great professor of economics at George Mason University, Walter E. Williams, writes in his article, which I recommend reading in its entirety, titled The Right To Discriminate:

"Should people have the right to discriminate by race, sex, religion and other attributes? In a free society, I say yes. Let's look at it. When I was selecting a marriage partner, I systematically discriminated against white women, Asian women and women of other ethnicities that I found less preferable. The Nation of Islam discriminates against white members. The Aryan Brotherhood discriminates against having black members. The Ku Klux Klan discriminates against having Catholic and Jewish members. The NFL discriminates against hiring female quarterbacks. The NAACP National Board of Directors, at least according to the photo on their Web page, has no white members."

Friends, discrimination is a part of freedom. UPS is discriminating in this matter over a religious conviction. Don't be fooled by their pietistic attitude that they are somehow "above it all." They are not. They are exercising a right. However, so are the Boy Scouts. The only difference between them is that the Boy Scouts are being discriminated against in order to apply pressure on them for seeking to raise up moral, upstanding, young men in our society, whereas UPS is using theirs to help advance a militant homosexual agenda.

One would be utterly foolish to think that placing openly homosexuals in with a group of impressionable, young men would not result in them taking advantage of those boys. Yet, it seems that is UPS' position. They have that right to disassociate themselves from the Boy Scouts. However, they should be shown to be the cowards they are in doing so, rather than making it appear that the Boy Scouts of America are somehow doing something wrong by exercising the same rights of discrimination to keep young men safe from the influence of sexual perverts (I refuse to say that their choices are "sexual orientation.")

I'll also call upon American individuals and businesses at this point. If you agree that you have a First Amendment right to discriminate, and you support the Boy Scouts of America in their stand against homosexuality, then I would ask that you look to support them and second that if you ship in the future, especially with it this close to Christmas that you call up your UPS representative and tell them you will be exercising your right to discriminate by choosing another carrier for your gifts and products. After all, there is a way to apply pressure to companies who want to politicize the perversion of homosexuality and that is by appealing to their pocketbooks and supporting what is right.

If you wish to let UPS know your dissatisfaction with their discrimination in the same manner that the militant homosexuals express themselves to the company, you can find contact information at their website here.

Additionaly, I have been informed that if you really want to hold UPS to the fire here, flood the office of the CEO with snail mail. His address is:

Scott Davis, CEO UPS World Headquarters 55 Glenlake Pkway NE Atlanta, GA 30328

Be sure to spread the word via Facebook and Twitter and I'm sure they will get the message loud and clear.

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  • Humanist11

    BSA has the right to dictate who they allow to be members and volunteer leaders, ensured by the constitution. However, they do accept taxpayer money in the form of sponsorships from government agencies such as schools, fire and police departments and city councils. The DOD spends $2 million every 4 years on the BSA Jamboree.

    Since BSA does take taxpayer money it should not be allowed to discriminate against race, religion or sexual orientation. It proudly discriminates against homosexuals and people who do not believe in god. That is disgraceful and should be illegal.

    The BSA is nothing more than an extension of the Christian faith and its deplorable teachings. It serves to brainwash young, impressionable kids to shun science and instead believe in a sky daddy who knows your every thought and will send you to burn in hell forever if you don't follow his rules. All of this of course without any evidence whatsoever!

    When you take my money to teach kids these false beliefs and the twisted morals of the bible I have a right to protest the BSA's deplorable policies. Stop taking taxpayer money and I'll leave the BSA to its twisted belief structure.

    • triggerhappy

      what a dumb ass you are, live by the Bible=Gods word and live AGAINST the Bible and DIE.......IT IS WRITTEN............YOU DUMBASS LOOSE THIS ONE

    • Humanist11

      You simply lose your composure when someone has a different opinion? It appears that my theory of atheists having better morals than bible followers continues to be true. Of course if you actually followed the teachings in the bible you would be in prison for sure!

      So it is written. By who exactly? And how do you know it's true and accurate? There are lots of contradictions and impossible things mentioned in the bible. Would you teach the lessons of Leviticus and Deuteronomy to your children?

    • Conshnz

      Thats probably the only part of the biblble u have er read because it disturbs u Humanist. Why even give it a second thought if u are the one who has it right and we are wrong. The fact that u keep bringing it up shows u give the it validity. The guilty person will always keep bringing up the subject because it is on their conscience, as a way of justifying it.

    • Humanist11

      Then why don't YOU answer the questions I've asked above?

      Here is some more quotes from your holy book. It seems that abortion was condoned by God.

      Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

      Hosea 9:14 Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

      Hosea 9:16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

      I can't copy the entire chapter for you, so please go read it for yourself and make sure you get the entire context.

      The bible offers thousands of examples just like this. I'm not kidding and it is straight out of the bible. I'm not just doing selective reading and I know there are good verses as well. Christianity did not invent morality, they only corrupted it with its own version.

    • Eddie Nelson

      "...believe in a sky daddy who knows your every thought and will send you to burn in hell forever if you don't follow his rules. All of this of course without any evidence whatsoever!". OK, so prove how superior you are and show definitive proof that God does not exist. BSA does not teach kids to shun science. In fact, the kids have to do science experiments to work their way towards the next rank. I was a Den leader for a Cub Scout Pack and I supervised several science experiments. There's a place for science as well as religion, and they CAN and DO coexist everyday. Seems like you are the extremist here.

    • Jerry Robison

      Humanist11, you are the worst kind of bigot. For the sake of attempting to appear as someone who isn't bigotted you express a very clear and strong hatred for Christianity. are you equally as bigotted toward other religions are is it just reserved for one? What are your feelings about Islam and sharia; honor killings and stoning for women that have a relationship with men they are aren't related to? Do you have equally bigotted views regarding Judaism, Buddism, Hinduism, Shinto, Sikhs or any other religious faith/

    • violater1

      And you have no fact to back this up what so ever! You are an absolute driveling slobbering motard Liberal Homosexual pervert! Here, I can do it too> I just contacted DHL headquarters and they said if you will present yourself to their Pilots they will gladly get a large lawsuit going against you for liable and defamation of character!

    • Humanist11

      Fedex has 4541 pilots, so even with 5% (pilots tend to be homophobic) there are probably about 225 homosexual pilots. Airborne Express flies DHL cargo and they have 460 pilots. Again at 5% that would be about 23 homosexuals. I personally know at least 3 airline pilots that are openly gay and they fly a good airplane without the passengers even knowing their sexual preference.

      If you think homosexuality is rare then you live in a bubble.

    • violater1

      Your case of HIV is affecting your comprehension! Just go off and die of your ailment. I never said that you idiots were rare I have stated that you are fags by choice not bye nature! In otherwords moron you are a perverted and mentally affected bunch of sicko's! I know a guy in Florida that has a cure for your ailment however are you interested?

    • violater1

      Never said it was rare you moron, You need to takes your HIV meds! I said it was not normal you flaming idiot! Why don't you do the world a favor and go suck an automobile tailpipe while it is running, Preferrably a Diesel powered vehicle!

    • Humanist11

      I love getting comments like this. It just proves my point to everybody how bigoted many religious people are. Thanks!

    • violater1

      No! Moron but it should definitely prove just how stupid and ignorrant people like you are! You who think that you should dictate to everyone your views and to hell with the views of others as you do not have any respect first for youself and definitely none for others!
      You are not a personal gift to the world and you definitely have shown that you are not all that smart! Narcissistic yes, but not all that you think that you are! You absolutely are a moron that shows all of the lowest form of existence when you speak and you are going to one day rue your own existence! Bigotted yes I am, for, do you even know the meaning of the word!~ I am in fact entitled to be bigotted under my constitutional rights under our present freedoms! But then again You are not????? You are as much a bigot as you accuse me of being and I accept the fact that I am staunchly in favor of my opinions as most all persons are! The difference is I do not go around trying to change everyones views via forcing them to recognize me as something greater than they are! While on your behalf you must try to prove others to be wrong and you the abnormal in mind have not the capability of doing so! Therefore if you do not care for my opinion then butt out and let things lay!

    • Humanist11

      Are you claiming it is me telling you what to believe in? Or am I reacting to how your religion tells me how to behave and what to believe in?

      I think you have it backwards, sir. For centuries religion has ruled with an iron fist over the people of the world and still does in many areas. In the US it is printed on our money, its stated in our pledge of allegiance, I have to swear on a bible in a court of law, I have to be taught about creationism in public school, I have to vote in a church, my kids have to pray before a soccer game or they are ridiculed, I have to pass 7 churches on my way home from the store, there are 24/7 religious channels on my cable, religious nut jobs knock on my door a couple of times a month telling me I must believe or go to hell, I have to listen to prayers at my city council meetings, my kids can't join BSA because they will not accept your sky daddy, I can't volunteer with BSA because I don't believe in your god, I have to pay more in taxes because churches are tax exempt and I have to give my kid's biology teacher written permission to teach them evolution in high school.

      You live in the church bubble and that is why you can't see the crap it puts me through because I don't think like you. When I express my opinion that everybody should be treated equal, regardless of religion or sexual orientation, you tell me I'm violating your rights. Give me a brake.

      I still think you are on my side and just saying such stupid things so others will see my points more clearly. Thanks again.

    • Humanist11

      Here is a good link that paints a good picture of what I'm saying. Watch it if you dare!


    • StephenFR

      "they do accept taxpayer money in the form of sponsorships from
      government agencies such as schools, fire and police departments and
      city councils. The DOD spends $2 million every 4 years on the BSA
      Jamboree." Incorrect. There are times when members of a troop will go to a school board or a specific school to advertise their existence. They must have permission from the principle or other local school official. As often as not they are refused, so this is in no way a sponsorship.

      For the past 4 jamborees the Boy Scouts RENTED a section of Fort A.P. Hill. Interestingly enough, president Obama was the first sitting president in 100 years that did not put in an appearance at a National Jamboree. Incidentally it was the centennial celebration. After that Jamboree Obama decided that the Boy Scouts were no longer allowed to utilize or rent public facilities. The Bechtel family donated a large piece of land for use by the Boy Scouts in West Virginia, which is where the next and all subsequent Jamborees will be held. The $2 million you talk of is the estimate that DOD personnel give to the boy scouts each year, it is not from the DOD.

      "The BSA is nothing more than an extension of the Christian faith and its deplorable teachings." Absolutely incorrect. There is one requirement, which is the belief in God. Your religion does not matter. It may appear to you that it is Christian as a lot of Churches donate their facilities, but in fact there are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Shinto and many other religions in the BSA. One of the principles is in fact religious tolerance. So, while they can be classified as a religious organization, they are not in fact Christian. In fact the when I was a boy, although I am a Christian, my Scout Master was Jewish and damb proud of it. And frankly no one cared.

      "teach kids these false beliefs and the twisted morals of the bible I have a right to protest the BSA's deplorable policies."

      Here are the morals taught by the Boy Scouts. Every boy in the scout knows them and does their best to live by them. So tell me, what in these is deplorable and detestable.

      There are two parts, and present or former boy scout will tell you that these are the two codes that they live their life by.


      On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, to help other people at all time, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.


      A scout is:












      and Reverent

      So what in this do you find deplorable?

      I understand that you are an atheist and frankly I really don't care. What I do care about is that you have absolutely no right to tell me how to raise my children and no right to force your opinions, and that is just what they are on me or anyone else.

    • Humanist11

      You are playing semantics with the federal funding issue. The federal government does not directly give cash to the BSA because it would be illegal to do so since they discriminate against atheists and homosexuals. Instead government at all levels donates resources that cost the taxpayers millions to the BSA. That equals my money being spent on bigotry. I'm a straight, middle aged white guy with a family and this bigotry still pisses me off. I can't believe this happens in America in 2012.

    • Conshnz

      Humanist 11, why can't u answer Stephen? He knows this from being a part of the organization. U are just an outsider who wants to heckle from the sidelines. Why do u care? I dont like the fact that my tax money is funding abortions, but u think its ok, so tough luck for me? Right back @ u! U have no argument here, so quit ur whinin.

    • StephenFR

      Humanist is an atheist and a progressive. As a progressive he feels that it is his right and duty to dictate how others should live their life and raise their kids. As an atheist that means that there can be no faith or belief in God and no religion to teach morals and values or any other organization that teaches them as they may interfere with his beliefs and what he wished to dictate to others.

    • Humanist11

      I've been answering Stephen and almost everybody else all afternoon. If it is about the federal gov't funding BSA then read my other posts. If it is something else then I'm missing the question. It is about 40 against 1 here and I'm doing the best I can.

    • StephenFR

      On the other hand you will discriminate on the basis that they will not support your belief system. You will tell others how they must raise their children based on your belief system. Here is the difference between you and the conservatives of this country. They believe that you have the right to live your life and raise your kids how ever you like, If you want to teach them that there is no God, that is your prerogative. You on the other hand believe that everyone should believe as you do and that they must follow you, they must raise their children as you would have them do, based on what you think is best.
      That is the reason we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. So I can raise my children how I wish, not as wards of the state. Both of my boys are not only religious, but also the top students in their schools, and they do go to public school. They will engage in debate with anyone, and their teachers have found that if they disagree, they may want to go back and check their facts, because when my boys state something they are almost always right.
      My oldest son just made Life Scout and is itching to get started on his Eagle (which is the highest rank in scouting). He would tell you that Scouting is the probably his favorite activity and one of the few things that he has ever found to be any kind of a challenge.

      So you raise your kids however you want, but do not presume to tell me how to raise mine or detract of destroy the institutions that my son and so many others enjoy. That is NOT your right.

    • Humanist11

      I don't want to tell you how to raise your children and it is not my right. See, we agree! I agree that most boy scouts in the higher ranks have a lot of good things going on in their life. Probably because they have parents that love them and encourage them to set goals and live a moral life. My son, who doesn't believe in a god, will graduate high school as the #1 ranked student. My daughter is on the same track. We both love our kids, want them to succeed, want to teach them good morals and will do anything to help them.

      I have a problem when school districts are not allowed to teach the science of evolution or must teach creationism as an equal possibility. Teaching ridiculous facts of religion (outside of a religious course) is detrimental to our kids. Keep religion out of government and schools and I'll be happy. Until then I'll continue to point out the hazards of mixing religion and government.

    • StephenFR

      " Teaching ridiculous facts of religion (outside of a religious course) is detrimental to our kids"

      Again, you are trying to decide for me how to raise my children. I want my child, and I think you would want your child to hear both sides of the argument and let them decide for themselves. To do otherwise is to censor information. Censorship is in fact a means of limiting free speech which is contrary to the first amendment. Further it limits the individual the ability to reason which limits logical thought. The true purpose of education is to develop in the minds of youth the ability to gather information and through a rational and logical process draw conclusions. If you limit information, then you limit their ability to reason logically. If they have the ability to learn and reason based on logic, the process of education is successful, regardless of what their conclusions to the facts may be as they will be able to show, based on logic, how they formed their conclusions.

      Let me ask you this. If your son came home tomorrow and told you that he went to a church with his friend and now wants to be a priest, would you love him less? Is it in fact not his life and his choice? By denying him the "argument" have you not in fact limited his access to information and through that his ability to make his own choice? I know you do not think this would be possible because you THINK that through your upbringing and teaching him what you think are the truths in the world your son would never make that choice. But actually, the minister at the church that I attended when I was living in Florida has both stated and given evidence that both of his parents were atheists. So, hey it can happen.

      On the converse, if one of my sons came home and said, dad, I have decided that I do not believe in God. First I would state that, as he brought up the subject, apparently he would like to discuss it with me. Then I would have the discussion. I would not judge him by the conclusion, and I would still love him just as much. Funny though, it was through discussions with my older son and his beliefs that my beliefs were strengthened.

      One last point. You stated that you love your children. Hey great. I would not question your love, but ask you, what is love? Honestly, I do not have the answer to this, only postulations. Is love a chemical reaction, which would be the explanation given your approach. There are two problems with that approach though. If it is a chemical reaction, then there are a few things. 1) Once the reaction is over, you should no longer love. 2) It would have to be a chemical imbalance, otherwise you would love everyone the same 3) As love is only one of many possible emotions, how does one move from one emotion to another without going through a variety of other emotions. That is, you can go directly from hate to love and actually go straight back to hate without feeling remorse, pity, empathy, etc. If it is a chemical reaction, how is that possible. 4) If love is a chemical reaction, it must be a chemical combination. If so, then I should be able to make you fall in love, or out for that matter through an injection. How would you account for all of this?

      By the way, please keep an eye on your kids for at least the next several years. Not sure if you are aware that most of the kids who fall victim to cults (which are not religion, but a perversion thereof for personal gain) come from those who prior to indoctrination had no belief in God. The explanation that I have heard is that the cult was actually able to give them a purpose that they had never felt before. There is no real correlation between level of intellect and participation, but there was based on the inductees prior belief system. Just saying, keep an eye on them. Honestly, you would rather your son be a Catholic priest than a Branch Dividian,

    • violater1

      If your above scenario applies on the taxation bullshit then my Christian taxes should not be applied to Killing unborn children and to supporting scientific medical efforts to cure you sicko bastards of the HIV that you tend to have a large percentage of carriers and receptors! So then lets also look at the issue of who pays in more you abnormal dipshits or those that are not worshipping your bouys ass hole! I believe as you have stated you have the lesser numbers so therefore you should have the lesser say in the use and distribution of those taxes! Also being of a lesser grade of individual that will have to drop you down another level of say in distribution and use of same!
      And there is plenty of evidence but as in your case this applies very well "Their are none so blind as those that will not see" ! Your total inability to see may very well be due to the grade which your HIV is at at this point in your life! But this part is a shame but true, the more of you that continue in this lifestyle the more of you that will die and the more of you that die the less of you that cry!!!!!

    • violater1

      Let me add this to your statement of the BSA being the user of Federal taxes! How much of my taxes Have you wasted and squandered with 1) Medical research on your depraved and diseased individuals! 2) How much Tax money's have you homosexuals wasted from your many other receipts of income from well lets say your gatherings which the Taxes pay for your little gatherings to Lobby and to gather up in Washington! How much of my Taxes are squandered on supporting a sick and miniscule percentage of people such as yourselves! How much do those free HIV meds cost us in this form of sexual discrimination via you squad of semen swallowers! I am sure that I can find out with just a small effort of research! So instead of whining and crying why don't you just go find another direction to take in you life rather than trying to shove your Jack ass abnormal lifestyle down the majorities throat! Have you ever considered this side of whom I am sure you supported! If and when Sharia Law is implemented, ( which will be over the more benevolent form presently in place) have you considered your fate at their hands! Do you have the foggiest idea what they do to people such as yourself! Do you think that you may have to go a little deeper than in a closet in that circumstance! I would venture to say you will have to find a cave to live in for then you will truly find out about a religion group of worshipers that have a zero tolerance for the likes of you and your pilot pals will crash and burn figuratively speaking!

    • Humanist11

      violater1. You represent your religion in typical fashion. I hope you don't have kids that you teach this stuff to. Anyway, they will have the internet to explore and consider other points of view. That is religion's worst exchange of ideas.

    • violater1

      Typical moron liberal response when their feet are held to the fire and they have to own up to they are wrong they run and blow smoke up everyones asses just as you are and have been doing from the start! Of course your being the faggot that you are I am sure this is common practice for you as the smell of defication most likely gives you an erection! That being the case you obviously must keep one since all you spew is factless defication (sh!t) that no one wants to hear! And there in lays the fact that you cannot live with!No one pays of attention to your drivel and whining and crying!

    • Humanist11

      This is my theory about violater1. I think he/she is actually an atheist who is saying these things to make Christians look bad. Most Christians I know would not behave like this. If that is what you are doing then I thank you. If not, then you are really making an ass of yourself and the other posters are condoning your behavior.

  • Walt

    Good comments in this article. I agree that the Boy Scouts have a right to choose who they wish to associate with. I have no particular grievance with homosexuals. I even have a few friends that are, however, they keep their ideas and lifestyles to themselves. I do have grievances with Gay Organizations. They do not want acceptance or equality; they demand superiority. They demand we accept, they demand we teach the young, they demand special status, finally, they demand that we abandon our freedom of choice. I SAY NO.

    • lonestarlady

      Amen Walt.

  • Dave

    The UPS is using extortion to effect a policy change by the BSA because they foster the homosexual agenda, they seek to dilute moral values so that homosexual behavior is thought to be normal, natural, and good, while suppressing the religious right of conscience and free speech rights of those who disagree... this fascism exploits the boys in
    scouts. Here we have a very large corporation trying to force the boys in scouting to pray at the alter of sodomy and UPS's has no good reason for doing so.

    "The firm’s new policy on charitable contributions is to only give to organizations that maintain a non-discrimination policy similar to its own."

    Really?? So the UPS doesn't think the BSA should discriminate against perversion & depravity. Well UPS, the parents of the boys in scouting are glad the BSA does exclude homosexual leaders; because we know the real homosexuals want to get close to the boys! Pretty sick don't you think, here we have people who have perverted so-called sex and can't procreate, they want to influence your children and tell them what to do and think. Homosexuals need professional mental help.. not scouts. Now what did I do with FedEx's phone number....

  • ConcernedVeteran

    Is the a collective effort and website to let the company they are losing our business???


    UPS..I've been usuing you folks for over 30 years for my business. You do a good job, but it's bye bye. I don't like fedex so I'll go back to USPS.
    What the heck were you people thinking?

  • jwright673

    I wonder if it's possible when ordering from a catalog to stress you do NOT want UPS delivering your order? If they say no, then tell them you are canceling your oder. It won't take too many of those to have companies who use UPS to pressure them in revisiting their stupid idea. I think this is called tit for tat.

  • Mickey Davis

    Every time you use UPS, You are agreeing with their perverted stance.

  • Brenda

    Hello FedEX

  • George Vieto

    UPS will be cursed from Above. The Boy Scouts will be blessed from Above. It is in the Good News magazine.

  • Elton Robb

    Fine, we don't need their money. If they don't want to give it to the BSA because we don't want to mix pederasts with young boys, then so be it.

    • Humanist11

      Stop taking taxpayer money and then you can do whatever you want. Until then stop discriminating against good human beings that just happen to be different then you.

    • Jerry Robison

      Again, what taxpayer money?

    • violater1

      Read the post bye Winghunter below, you sick pervert!

    • StephenFR

      Again moron, Boy Scouts do not take government money. It is against their principles!

    • Elton Robb

      I just took a test not too long ago on adult relationships with our boys. You really want to put homosexuals in a situation where they can't fight the temptation to molest young boys? What if you had a 12 to 13 year old boys issued from your loins? Do you want them to be in that environment?

    • Humanist11

      That is why BSA has rules that adult leaders must adhere to. The BSA should be screening for pedophiles, not homosexuals. They are two different things.

    • Elton Robb
    • Elton Robb

      Here are several links in Google Scholar that talks about the link between pederasty and male homosexuals.

  • dntmkmecomoverther

    Well UPS, you have shipped my last parcel till you regain your moral compass.

    Oh, and speaking of inlcusive, since you so adore the sexual sin of homosexuality, then the other sexual sins must be OK with you as well. Can we expect that you will now support the porn industry, the prostitutes, the klepto club and so many others? Get a grip UPS...get a grip America.

    • Elton Robb

      You want UPS to support pathologically compulsive thieves?

    • dntmkmecomoverther

      No silly; I was simply pointing out the inconsistency of their stance.

  • Winghunter

    Child Molestation by Homosexuals and Heterosexuals by Brian W. Clowes, Ph D, David L. Sonnier
    "...In fact, a number of studies performed over a period spanning more than half a
    century — many of which were performed by homosexuals or their sympathizers—
    have shown that an extremely large percentage of sexually active homosexuals
    also participate in child sexual molestation. This is not "homophobia" or
    "hatred," this is simple scientific fact...."

    The Homosexual Agenda
    “This article notes that the goals and means of this movement include indoctrinating students in public school, restricting the free speech of opposition, obtaining special treatment for
    homosexuals, distorting Biblical teaching and science, and interfering with freedom of association.”

  • Greg

    It will be DHL and FedEx from now on!!!

  • mrbp

    Where does fed-ex stand on this??

  • Jane Jessee

    So much for using UPS from here out...FedEx will be my shipper of choice.

    • violater1

      10-4 that and we have DHL as a second choice! Intel Games and computers be hanged just read the labels before you buy intel is not necessarily the best it is just the most costly!

  • vet

    I would suggest that 350 million people less the 80 thousand of course boycott them and let them know that we will not support them or anyone else for that matter that promotes perverted ways that God says is wrong.Fed Ex would be a wise choice for now on.Hit them where it hurts in the pocket book.We can play this game too.

    • Gatorman

      Sadly, FedEx does exactly the same thing

    • JIM

      When society ,the public everyone has accepted the ungodly nature of Evil and the evil spirits that abound ,You can expect Jesus Christ to return ,But the ungodly wont be expecting Jesus ,Only the one that are called and that will know the signs of the times will know of JESUS CHRIST imminate Return ,Will you know Jesus voice when he ,speaks to You ???????????WILL you desern ,what it means to hear Jesus speak to You ???????????? REPENT NOW FOR THE KINGDOM IS AT HAND !!!

    • Humanist11

      It is amazing to me how such seemingly smart people can believe in such nonsense. How do you let people convince you that the bible and the story of god is true? It is outrageous in its claims and has no evidence to support them. Is this what BSA teaches kids? Wow!

    • Eddie Nelson

      And yet you whole heartedly believe there is no God, despite the lack of proof that there isn't a God.

    • Humanist11

      I don't believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny either. There is no proof that them not existing either.

    • violater1

      You know what Mr. Smart guy. I would rather believe in the creator and be right ( Which I am and millions like me) than be like you and not believe and be WRONG! Even your sacred Darwin on his deathbed refuted his wrongs of all of his writings just before he died! Hope you don't make the mistake sooner or later and refuse to accept the truth! For all that is around you did not just evolve as you so learned individuals believe! But if you do choose this route then Not even god will help you and you will cry out but it will be too late for you dude! So enjoy your miserable Godless life and perhaps your love of money for all things come to an end and that you can count on!

    • freedomgirl

      Oh V... Breath and calm yourself...
      We Know, In Our Hearts what True Truth Is...
      You remind me of my Boxer...He's Good, But Hates the Evil Around Him...
      He can be a biter, takes me, goodness, to keep him calm...
      Don't be Angry, release that energy into something better...
      I understand every word you said...
      Do you understand mine?
      V, Find Forgiveness...
      NO!! I Am Not A Liberal Forgiver!!
      I am just trying to calm your Spirit..
      God Bless....

    • violater1

      Thanks freedom girl I needed that! Oh yes I understood it all quite well! Thanks again!

    • Humanist11

      What is really sad is that some people live their entire life in fear of god's wrath and of eternal torture in hell. They would rather follow the scared masses than have the courage to discover the real world around them. It is especially sad when this god does not exist.

      Don't you think god would know if you were just going through the motions of being a christian just in case. I have too much personal integrity to do that. Nobody should do that.

    • violater1

      You do not know the meaning of the word integrity! But it takes slugs like you to keep the population of the minions at an all time high! You will be in good company! do you like pain and anguish from extreme heat, well good for there will be billions of you all in a clump! screaming in great agony for relief, It will be some sight for you and your unknown word!

    • Stevenson 5

      Antichrist! I see you are here!

    • Humanist11

      Dude, you crack me up! Do you believe in ghosts and goblins too? I'm just a man.

    • V Christine Bingham

      'But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.' I Corinthians 1:14. Humanist.. you can't know God if you wanted to. The Bible already tells us that. Your loss. Pity too, because when you finally meet God, it will be too late for you.. The Lord is standing at your door knocking... try inviting him in.. then you'll know what millions have known for 2,000 years.. fellowship with the King of Kings.

    • Humanist11

      Please tell me what credibility this verse or the bible has? I can quote bible verses all day that condone murder, slavery, abortion, genocide and torture. I assume you know these already, but simply choose to ignore them and only quote what sounds nice.

    • Mebeso

      again, start looking into the hermeneutics of these verses .... the history, culture of the time those verses were written that you refer to. There are many places in the Bible, especially OT, that seem so very harsh and cruel compared to what we live in today, but compared to what was going on at that time and place ...... less harsh than the surroundings.

    • Humanist11

      So god was wrong by writing the OT? This is the Holy Bible we are talking about, right?

      You don't get to pick and choose what crazy stories and lessons are right or wrong in the bible. If there was a god and he wanted us to know him, he'd have done a much better job of communicating.

    • Noni77

      Have you read the Bible? Read Biblical, historical, archeological, and linguistic accounts of the Bible, what it is, and how it came to exist? Are you aware that all scrolls and early translations support a near impossible accuracy unheard of in ANY other piece of literature - to include Shakespeare, a mere 400 years old (not over 2,000) and written by ONE author, not 16 or more spanning 2,000 years, yet meshing perfectly? Any knowledgible, THINKING person knows this is impossible BUT for God keeping his Word from corruption. Your knowledge is zip, you parrot pathelogical liars playing you for the fool. In order to "prove" there is no God, you would have to be omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent to be in every corner of the universe in the form of a subatomic particle up to an immeasurable vastness in order to be everywhere that God "could be" at precisely the exact moment is time to make sure you did not "miss" him. You would hzve to be a god to declare God non-existent. You are shooting blanks intellectually and deluded beyond belief.

    • Humanist11

      Yes I have read the bible and that is why I'm an atheist. It is your religion that is making the extraordinary claims so the burden is on you to show they are correct. Please tell me how the following can happen:

      A man lives inside a whale for days
      Men live to be over 900 years old
      Man is made from dirt and a woman from a rib
      Donkeys and snakes can talk
      10 million animals and their food survive on a wooden arc for months
      The Red Sea opens up
      A man comes back from the dead
      A man can rise into the clouds to meet a supernatural being

      Why does god have to kill so many people? Why does god have to use fear and the threat of hell to keep people in line? Why is he so jealous if he is the only god and is perfect? Why did he give us brains that are logical and capable of reason and then ask us to believe in outrageous stories? If he is so kind and loving, why doesn't he make himself clearly known so everybody can experience his love?

      These are real questions that the church has no real answer to. The church's answer is "You just have to have faith and believe. If you don't you will burn in hell for eternity".

    • Mebeso

      you ought to look into Biblical hermeneutics .... there are many explanations on that path, not just "you have to have faith" ... that would be the wrong church for you to be in..... God is huge and can take any of your questions and doubts....

    • Mike Dopps

      Humanist, I am sorry you feel so hurt, it is not your fault. Alot of things in religion cannot be understood no matter who you are. 95% of the worlds population believe in this one guy from different angles, and everyone is trying to make sense of it, and believe their way is right.

      So I will leave you with this. All of the proof you require is right in front of your face, you just have to stop trying to avoid from looking at it....

    • Conshnz

      Humanist 11, How can u prove that your "truth" is the only truth? What is your evidence? You let all the textbooks full of theories stated as facts, and humnist teachers shape ur opinions. So how would that be any different? Your so called truth is just as much a religion as Christianity and belief in God. An idea that our founding fathers believed in.

    • Humanist11

      Fair question. Webster defines religion as: (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
      : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
      archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
      : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

      Atheists simply don't believe in a god, any god. We do not worship anything supernatural or otherwise. We are committed to reason, logic and evidence. We do not have an institutionalized system of beliefs, attitudes or practices. We do not have a codified system of morals. In fact we don't agree on too much except that there is not proof for the existence of a god. We don't have scripture, churches or rules. I don't understand how you can say we are a religion. What I believe is not the only truth, in fact I'm quite certain I'm dead wrong about many things. I do know complete BS when I see it though. Very similar to how most of you see the muslim faith.

  • Randy K

    Well, my entire extended family is now on a mission to make sure that neither we, nor ANYONE we do business with ships or receives anything by "Oops". Fed Ex or bust.

    • Jane Jessee

      Fred Smith will be smiling all the way to the bank....Fed Ex or more UPS

  • A. Levy

    UPS has every right to withhold it's support from the Boy Scouts. In fact, they have just as much right as the Scouts have by saying who can join their "private" organization. Speaking of rights, i too have the right (not) to use any business that punishes others for their opinions and beliefs. I shall BOYCOTT UPS for it's fascist and tyrannical attitude. They need us a whole lot more than we need them!
    "Political correctness is a far greater threat to our freedom and liberty than is terrorism..."

    • Tim Brown

      completely agree.

    • Mom

      I agree. They sure love to be UnGodly Correct!!!

    • violater1

      I second that in agreement! And furthermore the scouts are better off without both of their funds and another benevolent funder will come along to take up the slack I am sure! I would say good ridance to bad rubbish and do all my business with DHL from hence forward or Fed Ex is another substitute! As for intel there are plenty of computers that are not powered bye Intel and the boys and families can buy other non Intel inside (that are usually over priced I might add) computers and Games! guess what UPS and Intel you may end up being the loser here in the long run! No one has to take your crap at all!

    • Winghunter

      On Demanding Tolerance
      When a liberal tells you to be tolerant, it is a double edged event. He is demanding you to surrender your conviction, as he maintains his.

    • Humanist11

      At least a free thinker is allowed to formulate his own thoughts, unlike religious sheep. When one has facts and evidence on his side he has an obligation to set others straight.

    • StephenFR

      See, here is exactly what Winghunter was talking about. Without thought or any facts or evidence, Humanist is telling us all we are religious sheep incapable of intelligence and logical thought. He mentions evidence yet gives none, and feels it is his duty and obligation to set us all straight. After all he knows for a fact that there is no God. Tell us, how do you KNOW that?

      Simple postulation for you as you apparently carry all the knowledge of the universe.
      Law of physics (which means that it has been proven beyond any doubt, unlike theory, such as Darwins THEORY of evolution.) For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.
      OK given that...
      If the Big Bang was an action, then there should have been a reaction which would have taken the Universe back out of existence. However there was no reaction, which means that the BIG Bang was a reaction to what? Come on, you know everything tell us. My 13 year old gave me the answer 4 or 5 years ago. It is really a simple concept.
      Until you can answer this one simple question, do not preach to us as apparently an 8 year old understands better than you do.

    • Humanist11

      I certainly don't know everything or maybe much at all, but I was born with a brain that is capable of reason. When anybody makes extraordinary claims it requires extraordinary evidence to back it up. Christianity makes quite a few and offers no explanation except that you have to have faith. When science makes an extraordinary claim it provides evidence to support its claim and is challenged by scientists around the world. Discoveries are often modified through this process. Similar to sharpening a knife to make it ever sharper.

      The "Big Bang Theory" is largely based on the technology of measuring light waves and is called "Red Shift". It is a bit complicated but is explained for us laymen in "The Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene. The "Theory of Evolution" was a theory to begin with until science tested it thoroughly and produced evidence to support it. There are many biology books that explain how this works and provides unrefutable evidence that is accepted around the world, except in Christian and Muslim circles . One is "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins. Evolution is every bit of a fact as the earth is round (something else the church refused to believe for many centuries). Christians don't want to believe it because it goes completely against what Genesis says in the bible. A good reason to regard the bible as extremely inaccurate.

      Religion is not allowed to change its claims because a perfect, benevolent god created it and how could he be wrong? Science often comes up with theories and examines the evidence to see if the theory is supported. Science is allowed to modify or change its claims based on evidence, religion is not. Newton's law of gravity was modified by Einstein's Theory of Relativity (which has also been verified by experiments).

      Just think how much science has succeeded using this method. Computers, space travel, GPS, airliners, mapping the human genome, producing medicine, remote controls for TV, etc. Science has a much better track record than religion.

      If BSA taught this kind of thinking, I'd buy their cookies too!

    • StephenFR

      For your information, about two months ago Steven Hawking made the announcement that he thinks he knows how the Universe came to be, but he wasn't sure if it is correct yet. So I find it interesting that these so called irrefutable laws that you claim are not supported by one of the three most brilliant physicists in history. The other two are Einstein and Newton if you weren't able to deduce this. So I find it interesting that you have been able to find "evidence" that Mr. Hawking is not yet aware of.

      The theory of evolution is still considered a theory as, while there appear to be a chain of skeletons that show change from ape to human over approximately 3.5 million years, there are, first several gaps still in the chain, and two, a question as to if this is the case, then when and how did man develop the ability of intellect.

      I am not uninformed as to science and in fact have spent a good part of my studies and life in the field.

      By the way, you seem to want to blame all the worlds ills on Christians and Muslims. You do realize that there are many other religions in the world and in fact in the United States. Most of them have a belief in God. That is a commonality.

      BTW Einsteins theory of relativity is still referred to a a theory as it does not work on the sub atomic level, hence quantum mechanics.

      There is a religious theory that states that God created man to create so that God may better understand how he does what he does.

      While there is no "proof" that there is a God, and that must be taken on faith, there is also no proof that there is no God. There is proof that there was a Jesus and there are eye witness accounts from many people of things that he did that defy scientific explanation.

      But here are two things for you to consider. The second is the more important, the first is something my son said to me when he was 9 that I still ponder.

      1) The bible says that the world is about 10,000 years old and science says about 3.5 billion. But how does an eternal being, not of this earth measure time. How long in our years would a day be to God?
      In other words, we measure time by the rotation of the earth and its orbit around the sun. That is a very confined and restricted measurement. As God preexisted the earth, how would God measure time?

      2) Whether you believe in God or not, the purpose of religion is to instil morals and values in the individual. In a true christian church those values are respect, understanding, acceptance, love, peaceful coexistence. Not all churches that claim Christianity actually follow Christianity. I have left more that one church for exactly this reason. You should not have any problems with the teachings of a Christian Church, If you do, I would suggest that they have perverted the word of Jesus.

    • Humanist11

      You cover a lot of ground here. I'll give short answers and move on.

      Stephen Hawking: He is doing his job by seeking real answers to the questions of the universe. There is always room for improvement and more clarity in science.

      Theory of evolution: Since Darwin's time there have been many scientific discoveries that have modified evolution teaching. They have clarified and sometimes modified details that were incorrect. Genetic science has shown how alleles, genes and chromosomes follow the basic theory of natural selection. This is basic stuff and you don't believe it because you are limited by your religious teachings.

      No proof there is no god: That burden is on the one making the claim. As you admit there is no proof. I can tell you there is a donut shop on the yet undiscovered planet of Qurrent, yet you can't prove that it doesn't exist. We both know it doesn't. Don't the Mormons believe is their own planet?

      Your son's comment: As a 9 year old he is curious and should be pondering such things. Most religious families will tell them that all the answers are in the bible and not to look further. If they do and ask questions you simply say the bible trumps everything and just have faith.

      Christian Morals: Christianity does not have a monopoly on good morals. They existed well before the religion was invented by man. Humans that did not have good morals were likely to die early while the humans that behaved properly and worked for the good of the species survived. That is natural selection and the essence of evolution.

    • StephenFR

      "Stephen Hawking: He is doing his job by seeking real answers to the
      questions of the universe. There is always room for improvement and more clarity in science."

      Mr. Hawking has stated that while he thinks that he may be on to something that there is no scientific explanation as to what caused the Big Bang. In other words, the court is still out on that one. Yet you gave me a number of books an articles which you claimed gave definitive proof as to how the universe was created. If the court is still out, then you can not have definitive evidence.

      "Theory of evolution: Since Darwin's time there have been many
      scientific discoveries that have modified evolution teaching. They have
      clarified and sometimes modified details that were incorrect. Genetic
      science has shown how alleles, genes and chromosomes follow the basic theory of natural selection. This is basic stuff and you don't believe
      it because you are limited by your religious teachings."

      You are wrong in assuming what I do or do not believe in. Science does not preclude religion and religion does not preclude science. While you seem to have done study in the area of science, it is obvious that you have never studied religion. There are many top physicist and scientists from many of the other branches of science who will tell you that they are in fact deeply religious and do believe in God. You assume that all religion dictates that God created a static system. In fact that is not what most religions teach. They state that God created a system, period. Is that system in flux? It would appear so. Does that mean that God did not create it? No. How did life come from inanimate objects? One could say that it was a random mixing of chemicals, ok, so how did those chemicals all of a sudden come alive? There are many questions for which science may have postulated theories, but yet has no answers. Your belief is that eventually science will have all of the answers. Is that not a statement of faith?

      "No proof there is no god: That burden is on the one making the
      claim. As you admit there is no proof. I can tell you there is a donut
      shop on the yet undiscovered planet of Qurrent, yet you can't prove that
      it doesn't exist. We both know it doesn't. Don't the Mormons believe
      is their own planet?"

      First, not a mormon, but using logic as the key to rational thought... In logic there are three possible outcomes. True, false, or inconclusive. The answer to your question concerning your hypothetical doughnut shop is inconclusive. Until such time as I am able to determine without a doubt whether such a planet exists, and if it does, if there is or is not a doughnut shop, the best I can say is that the answer is inconclusive, That means it can not be proved or disproved. On the other hand I can say, based on our knowledge of the percentage of the known universe, that we have a confidence factor of x% that it either does or does not exist. I would tend to say that the probability is very low. Lets take a different argument, however, to more accurately express this.

      Do you believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe? Based on observation the answer would have to be no. We have never observed life except on the third planet of the Sol system in the Milky Way Galaxy, so based on observation there is no live except there.

      However, given the laws of probability this must be a false conclusion as the law states that if there is a probability of an occurrence if the universe and the universe is infinite, (which science says that it is), then the occurrence not only must occur more than once, it in fact must occur infinite times. Frankly I think that the laws of probability will bear this out, however, observation has not ratified the laws, so where are these infinite number of inhabited planets?

      "Your son's comment: As a 9 year old he is curious and should be
      pondering such things. Most religious families will tell them that all
      the answers are in the bible and not to look further. If they do and
      ask questions you simply say the bible trumps everything and just have

      Again, you presume to know the thought and actions of others. I would tell you that the church that my family went to at that time has over 3,000 members. I know quite a few of them personally. I can tell you that there is not one of the parents or grandparents that I have met that would tell any child that all of the answers are in the bible. That is a fallacy that is perpetrated by those that see no use in religion and would deny the existence of God. In fact, at that time, I've since moved, amongst the people that I knew there were doctors, lawyers, scientists and many other professions represented. Amongst them are, or were at that time, many top names in their professions, not locally, but internationally as it is one of the most affluent communities in our country.

      "Christian Morals: Christianity does not have a monopoly on good
      morals. They existed well before the religion was invented by man.
      Humans that did not have good morals were likely to die early while the
      humans that behaved properly and worked for the good of the species
      survived. That is natural selection and the essence of evolution."

      Actually anthropology has shown that "apparent" religious belief goes back as far into history as the appearance of anything beyond the most primitive thought. In fact burial and cremation are more or less the point at which anthropology believe that was any reasoning capability beyond that of primitive animals. These are considered as religious practices, Christianity was not the first religion. Pagans had religion. Religion has been with us since the first time that man postulated a question for which he did not have an answer.

      Evolution has nothing to do with morals. Evolution is a random process where genetic mutation has the possibility of creating an adaptation to a member of a species that will give it an advantage over the other members of the species. As a result of that mutation that new subspecies will actually do better and eventually push the original species out. Where do you find morals in that? Morals are things like do unto others. Evolution is in fact the survival of the fittest. You could make the argument that Evolution is in fact the antithesis of morals. Evolution is the biggest and baddest takes from the weak and kills their neighbor. Morals teach us that everyone has the right to exist and that we should help our neighbor when they are in need, not eat them. Religion, not just Christianity, did in fact give us morals, whether you care to admit it or not.

    • reggiec

      Sorry, I will stick with the opinion expressed by our first POTUS.
      Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
      George Washington from his farewell address

    • Tout

      How little do you know. Hope you get wiser.

    • Randell Danner

      it isn't that he knows so little, he just knows so much that isn't true.

    • Humanist11

      You guys live in a bubble.

    • Randell Danner

      science has never tested the theory of evolution. to test something you have to be able to duplicate it and eyewitness it for it to be fact. no one has ever seen with the naked eye the evolutionary process. the big bang is based on nothing exploding into something; how is that possible when at least two substance are required to interact to cause an explosion. with every action there is an opposite reaction. what were those two substances and where did they come from? hmmmm?

    • Humanist11

      For those who have honestly studied evolution, including many christians, realize that it is as much a fact as water freezes. All you have to do is have a basic high school background in science and biology to see and understand the evidence. Christians that believe in evolution try to explain how that is god's way to continue bringing life to earth, of course the bible doesn't say so. Remember that the "Theory of Gravity" was once just a theory until proven correct with some modifications from Einstein (an atheist). Gravity is true, but you can't see it.

    • Randell Danner

      your sound like a good little sheep of the atheist crowd believing and spewing everything they tell you to believe. brainwashed much?

    • Humanist11

      Atheists are actually all over the place with their political beliefs and ideas about how the world should be. The only real glue that holds us together is the fact we don't believe in god, any god. I would guess that we tend to favor democrats only because the religious right has hijacked the republican party and dictated their social policies from the bible. In fact, we very much have the courage to think on our own and see the world as it truly is. I voted Libertarian (Gary Johnston) is you were wondering. How could I vote for Obama with his crazy socialist economic ideas or Romney who wears his Magic Underwear for protection.

    • Tim Brown

      There is no doubt that scientific data can be useful for building computerss and technology and things of that nature, but tell me, when was the last time science created a computer that if you dropped it and parts broke, it fixed itself? Well, my God did that with much of His Creation.

      In addition, science can never tell you absolute truth. It can estimate, but it can never reveal absolute truth. It can't tell you if it's wrong to murder or not. It can't tell you what actually happened in history, even the big bang. It just does not have that ability. Nor can it tell you whether there is a God or not. However, the limitations on science should be enough to confirm just how small and finite man is and that there is a God and He is far more powerful than your "free thinking" or mine.

      In addition, what you are not telling those you are writing to is that Dawkins is not explaining macro evolution, but rather everyone admits there is small changes in species depending on their envrionment, but it does not then transfer into that particular bird turning into a fish, or a lizard into a dog. In order to sustain Darwinism, one would have to demonstrate that, and the reality is they cannot. Small adaptive changes (often referred to as micro evolution, which is no evolution at all, but adaptation) have been seen for a long time. It does not prove the big bang or the evolutionary theory. Dawkins is beguiled and deceived and he continues to promote his deception when he is old enough to know better.

    • Humanist11
    • Joanne13

      I seem to remember about a decade ago... perhaps longer, scientists discovered an unexpected anomaly in the rings around Saturn that defied known physics. So if your definition of physics is correct (i.e. proven beyond any doubt) then obviously even physics (or known science) is NOT absolute. Just throwing that out there for our resident 'humanist' to ponder...

    • Humanist11

      There are always new things to learn. Unlike religion, science knows there is an infinite amount to learn about our universe and we will never know it all. Science is allowed to make mistakes and has the responsibility to correct them when found. Scientists are eager to prove each other wrong or modify a theory more accurate. Religion is locked into one overreaching belief that can't be modified (even if found to be wrong) or it undermines the greatness of the bible or god. Religion was invented by man to control the masses and give answers to questions of the time (even though they were outlandish). Religious leaders used fear to keep people in line. Now, some of us realize this about religion and prefer to seek answers based on fact, evidence, logic and reason.

    • Tim Brown

      Humanism and atheism are both religious in nature and even the Supreme Court has said so, but again, your god is "science" falsely so called as science can never tell you absolute truth. Ahhh yes you realize religion is mad by man, yet you follow in the footsteps of your own religion, correct? See, this is what I'm talking about. You're not a "free thinker." You are a sheep without a shepherd, but following hired servants. The true Shepherd is Christ. He commands you to repent of such nonsense and follow Him (the Word, or more literally in the Greek, logos, from where we get our word logic.)

    • reggiec

      The secular state has replaced any fear used by religion with its efforts to control and mold society to its utopian ideal.
      A government attempting to force a society to accept those forces that are “naturally” alien to man, always results in ever increasing levels of force and subjugation by the government.
      Socialists believe that the people in a society are to be molded to fit their idea of the unattainable utopia in violation of human nature. Individuality must be mitigated and those who resist must be made to conform. In many respects Socialists are like a child attempting to fit a square peg in a round hole. When it refuses to go in, they resort to either reshaping the peg and destroying the original or driving it in with a sledgehammer.

    • Pynt

      I think that is the same ring that they later discovered was created by volcanic eruptions from an orbiting moon. The debris of all things was ice that kept the ring around Saturn populated with material. An ice volcano how interesting is that o.O

    • Joanne13

      VERY interesting Pynt! Thx for sharing. ;o)

    • Tim Brown

      Stephen, what "thinker" up there "thinks" is nothing new. He is not a 'free thinker." He derived his thoughts from those that taught him just as the rest of us do. He has nothing new to offer in the way of ideas. We are all products of those who have taught us.

      As the Scriptures teach, "There is NOTHING new under the sun." "Thinker" is one in a line of many, he is not "free" as he suggests.

    • freedomgirl

      I'm sorry H, You kinda contradicted yourself there...( Yea, The 'Southern Draw' is on purpose..)
      To 'Free Think' Obligated to 'Set Others Straight'...
      Please reread and really 'Think' about your statement...
      I Have The Right To Think As I Will, As Do You...
      She Has A Mind Of Her Own... As does He...
      We may be in the same book, just not on the same page...

    • Noni77

      That's why Christians will not be silenced. Cutting edge science fields like Quantum physics, Microbiology, and Cosmology all strongly indicate Intelligent Design is the ONLY possibility. Darwin himself said that his Theory of Evolution MUST be discarded if EVER the single cell was found to be anything but a simple glob of protoplasm... Microbiology long ago established that the single cell is comprised of TRILLIONS of mechanized proteins at work 24/7 within the single cell. But "Humanists" don't read or keep up with facts, they simply regurgitate Humanist propaganda that is of less worth than 5th hand gossip. Pathetic.

    • Humanist11

      Leviticus (one of my favorite books)

      20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

      I'm sure glad that most Christians don't follow the bible too closely or they would have to kill about 10% of the world's population. Only let your kids read the nice parts of the bible.

    • Conshnz

      Humanist 11 that is taken completely out of context. God's word also says in the New testemant that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Leviticus does not command us to kill them. But the laws of the day when that was written were different. That was before the new covenany and salvation thru Jesus. His forgiveness allows even homosexuals to repent and turn from their waus and they will be saved. Don't quote something that u have no clue about.

    • StephenFR

      Leviticus - Old Testament. Christians use the Old testament as the basis of where their religion came from, but in fact follow the teachings of Christ known as the new testament. You know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc.

    • Humanist11

      So the Old Testament is crap? That is not holy scripture from your perfect god? What does Matthew (that is the New Testament by the way) have to say about that?

      Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

      Go to the chapter and read it in full context if you like.

    • Tim Brown

      The OT is not "crap." Actually when Paul penned Timothy (NT) he said all scripture was God breathed and profitable. He spoke of the OT. Personally I have no problem using the OT for law. We have in this country for years, via the states, had laws against homosexuality. Just because people want to move away from that doesn't make homosexuality right, nor does it make those laws wrong. Perhaps the issue is the moral fabric of the society.

    • StephenFR

      Why do you constantly try to twist the words to fit your agenda? I stated that the old testament was, and is the basis, the new testament is what is actually followed.

      In fact I agree with the passage that you chose. First, remember that the bible that you read was translated at some point from Hebrew into Latin and then into German and then into English. Thomas Jefferson actually used to cut up different versions of the Bible and paste them together to try to ascertain the true meanings. So, in fact, there are many different versions of the bible out there. The most popular one is the St. James version as we were originally English colonies and the St. James is the preferred version of the Anglican church which still holds dominance amongst the religions in our country. But back to the point. Let me ask you this, when he says "The Commandments" what do you suppose he was referring to? It is very specific. He was referring to the Ten Commandments given to Moses by God. So you do not believe that the Ten Commandments should be followed? Specifically, which one do you feel we should throw out?

    • Tim Brown

      my kids read all parts in order to teach them how God deals with sin........all sin. As your "scientific" arguments you presented..........this is an assumption on your part too.

    • Leann

      It also says that if you kill another man that you shall be put to death as well, and it says that there are punishments for adultery, but our culture doesn't follow those rules most of the time. That doesn't mean that because we don't kill homosexuals (which I think would be completely wrong anyway) and because we just lock away murderers and do nothing to punish adulterers doesn't mean that those things have somehow all of a sudden not become wrong.

    • Humanist11

      I'm not saying those things are acceptable. My point is that the bible is full of violence that is condoned by god. A lot his actions are completely unacceptable in any culture.

    • Gordon

      New Gallup numbers are 3.04%of the American population is homosexual, and reflective of the world numbers. A far cry from the claims of 10%.

    • Humanist11

      I looked it up too and you are correct with that number. So now that is it 3%, is it OK to kill only 3%? Just asking.

    • Humanist11

      I agree it is very complex. Why is god the right answer? We humans don't understand everything and never will, but that does not mean your religion is true.

      Darwin was just a man. Not perfect and not a god. There was much that he did not know that we know today.

    • Tim Brown

      hear, hear! noni!

    • Somekindofpatriot

      "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the
      left." Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

    • sadbuttrue

      No one has an obligation to set others straight. They are free and more than welcome to offer the information but by not means impose it on those who are misinformed. I personally would prefer to believe there is a God who loves me and gives me my many rights that man cannot. I truly feel that if you don't believe in something you'll fall for anything. And this might explain why Obama was reelected. Ya think?!?

    • Humanist11

      You are right. I don't have an obligation to set others straight. In fact that is what I don't like about religions. I said it in the heat of emotion and should not have said it. Sorry.

    • Tout

      It can take quite some studying to realize that God exist. It depends on how serious you study.

    • Humanist11

      One can say that it takes courage to realize the truth and take the responsible path instead of give in to laziness and follow the other sheep.

      Most people believed the earth was flat 2000 years ago while some who did the science had a "theory" that it was actually round. Of course these people were put to death by the religious for having such thoughts. Google it and see for yourself.

    • sadbuttrue

      Too bad the world accepts what money and time prove through science. But not what hope and faith prove through the word of God and the spirit within. I was save as a child because I felt HIS words move me and I believed. But I also got an early taste of what the world held for me and my beliefs. I was 8yrs when I went to the alter. I was full of hope, faith and the love of God that day. But within a few days reality hit me like a ton of bricks and my heart aches every time I think of it. But my parents (who did not attend church with me) were called by the Pastor to come and council with him, about me. He felt I was too young and really didn't understand. And I was being talked out of feel and believing as I did.

      Fortunately my parents did not agree and they let me be Baptized. It still aches to think a Pastor of all people would not or could not see or feel how God had touched my life that day. Over the years I have gone to churches and never really been comfortable. I see what people do, how they act towards others in or out of the church and I don't always see God in his own house. Many of these people profess to have God in their lives when it is only the in thing to do or say.

      I don't have a church home now because like our government God's houses need to be cleaned. Our at least his people need to have an awakening like no other. I feel HIM in my heart everyday. I know he is there and I try to live the life I should for HIM, myself, my family and others so as to be an example for them. But we are only human. And these bodies HE gave us have their limits and everyday mine seems to fight me on what I need to be doing.

      But my thought is this, I believe in a being I can only see through HIS works, HIS creations and HIS love. Unlike others I cannot see where a mere micro organism can flower into such beings as ourselves. That is a far far reach in my eyes. Yet I do see what some organisms accomplish as far as beauty on this earth as well as destruction. But I don't see how so many can believe they have to ability to produce beings as ourselves. I would prefer to believe an all seeing, all powerful being (GOD) is watching over his creations. Not a tiny micro organism on which I can step and destroy without even seeing it. Which scenario makes more sense to you?

      I haven't read the Bible since I was a child for many reasons. But with the way of the world today I have a much stronger sense of it's purpose and power than any other time in my life. And by the end of this day I hope to be scouring it's pages and renewing my trust and convictions like never before.

      I have been praying for President Obama, our Congressmen and our country since the day he took office the first time. And since nothing much has changed (because I know so many out there have done the same) I feel that God as a plan for us. And as always it is for HIM to know and for us to find out what it is. We have weathered many a storm and disaster and have come through will more determination that before. And more knowledge, strength and devotion. And we will do so again. As long as we follow HIM and not our leaders who so blatantly cast HIM aside. All I can say to them is this--

      Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

      Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
      Holy Bible, King James Version

      GOD gave us free will and with that a road to our own destruction. I hope and pray it won't come to that in my children's life time. I know there is a much better place awaiting us once we leave this earth. I just hope those who once believed it will trust in it again. But for those who don't I will continue to pray for them. As for now that is still my God given right, but I just don't know how much longer we will have this right.

      Sorry I've rambled on. I do appreciate your time and hope you have a very blessed day.

    • Raymond

      If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13

      Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. Romans 1: 24, 25, 26, 27.

      The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 22:5.

      Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner,giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 7

      Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, noridolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. 1 Corinthians 6: 9.

      Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and forsinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine. 1 Timothy 1:9,10.

      And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. And if a woman approach unto any beast,and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Lev 20: 15, 16.

      Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Leviticus 18: 22, 23.

      Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Isaiah 5:20,21

      Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galations 6:7

    • sadbuttrue


    • smartgranny55

      I agree. But, I also, think they are cowards.

    • Humanist11

      I would agree with your opinion the Scouts have the right to say who the members are, except they take millions of dollars of taxpayer money and that means they can't discriminate against race, sexual orientation, or religion. Just stop taking my money and your opinion will be correct.

    • Eddie Nelson

      Well, as soon as Planned Parenthood (which takes hundreds of millions a year) quits taking my money to abort babies against the will of the majority of Americans, you can argue your point about the Boy Scouts. NO private organizations should receive funding from the taxpayers, to include colleges and universities. Grants for studies should cease immediately. If the study is worthy of funding, the private sector will fund it in return for rights to the findings. NPR shouldn't receive funding either. Again, let the private sector decide if it wants for continue funding it through advertising and donations. And just so we're clear, taxpayer funding is completely different than tax exemptions and deductions. Also, if the homosexuals, atheists, and humanists want to start their own club they are free to do it. It's in the First Amendment. Until that time, the BSA needs to be left alone for trying to mentor children along a path of Godliness.

    • StephenFR

      See my statement above to Humanist. The Boy Scouts have never taken money from the government. They are and always have been privately funded, mostly through the efforts of the individual scouts.

    • Eddie Nelson

      I know. My sons were in the Boy Scouts. I was just covering all grounds.

    • StephenFR

      My 13 year old just made Life and is now looking at Eagle projects. I can't wait until he gets that out of the way.

    • Tout

      NELSON Thanks. Real scouting is for life. I am old, am still a scout. Nobody brings me money. I do not object that 'real scouts' receive money. In my young years, in our country, we did not get money. One way to earn money; we cut birch branches, made Christmas creches, tried to sell them. With pieces of wood we made toys, gave them to abandonned children. We were not rich, but we were Catholic scouts.

    • Humanist11

      Most Americans support the right for women to choose. The people you hang out with may not, but a clear majority support choice. Planned Parenthood tries to minimize abortions by offering alternatives to getting pregnant and offers safe and legal abortions to women who might otherwise find an unsafe abortion. It saves women's lives.

    • Jerry Robison

      You'd better explain that statement... exactly how much and what is the source of the millions of taxpayer dollars are the Boy Scouts of America taking?

    • StephenFR

      Humanist is totally ignorant. The Boy Scouts have never received one cent from the government. It is actually against their rules to do so.

    • Humanist11

      And against the law since they discriminate. The federal gov't goes around it by spending money to put on functions for them. The DOD puts out over $2 million for the Jamboree every 4 years. Congress mandated that they do. Source:
      They cite their sources at the bottom of the website as well.

    • StephenFR

      You are wrong on so many points I do not know where to start. 10 The money was not solicited by the BSA. If the government gives you a check, you are obliged to take it. Did you know that during the 2008 and beyond melt down that some banks were FORCED to take bail out money. I had an account at the Northern Trust and when I saw their name on the list I ask the President of the region who is a friend of mine. He told me that they requested repeatedly to be allowed to bypass the bailout as they were not in any way in jeopardy. They were told that they had no choice but to take it. I believe him as they paid it all back with interest on the first date that they were allowed to.

      The DOD may have given money in the past, but not only do they no longer, but the BSA no longer uses government facilities that would in any way cost the tax payers any money. In fact I will give you an example as to how it works. There is an air-force base in Northern Georgia, Robbins, that, with the commanders permission allows Boy Scouts to camp over night on their way to summer camp. Many of the troops from South Florida take advantage of this as it is too hot to camp outside for a week in Juiy in South Florida. Where they camp is a picnic area that is often used by camp personnel and is not used for any other purpose. The boys are allowed to eat in the mess hall with the personnel of the base, however, they pay for their dinner and breakfast, and in fact the mess hall is operated by a private outside firm. They have very strict restrictions on when you may enter and leave the base as well as what facilities you may or may not use. Generally you are allowed to use any facilities that are operated by private contractors. However, the base commander must make a report where he places a value on the "services" provided, such as the camping area. That is where a lot of the so called money is accounted for. They say $25 per camper, 40 campers, $1,000 donation. Did any money ever exchange hands? No, Did the DOD actually incur any expense? No,

      For a number of Jamborees the Scouts went to Fort AP Hill at the invitation of the government. The same situation as I explained above is what occurred, The DOD did not give them money, they did not interfere with the operations of the base and the BSA was in fact responsible for set up, operation, break down and clean up, all of which they did on their own. So, in fact the statement that the DOD puts out $2 million every 4 years is in fact an accounting entry, not an expense. Just the same way as if you have an office in your home you can deduct a portion of your mortgage payment. It is just an accounting entry. In fact, I would go even a bit farther in that the government could have actually asked them to pay a rent rather than just putting it down as a donation. However, and I know this as my father was in charge of and ran the exposition at NASA in 1976. If you charge a rent or an entrance fee for something run by the government there is h*ll to pay. You see, my father set up the exposition and charged a nominal entrance fee. In addition vendors, who were after all selling goods to attendees also were required to pay a fee. That all makes sense, doesn't it? At least then any taxpayer money that is used to put together and run the exposition can be paid back, or at least minimize the expense. Well, guess what. The attendance was well above expectation and the event made money. My father spent months in front of Congressional committees, with the GAO and other government bodies, because according to the government they are not allowed to make money in that way.

      At any rate, the BSA will, in the future not be using any government facilities for their Jamborees. They now have a facility that they own that was donated to them and they are presently making ready for the 2013 National Jamboree, Frankly, they are very happy with their new facility and feel that as it is in the mountains of West Virginia in a wilderness area, it is much more conducive to the interests of the 50,000 boys than Fort AP Hill ever was,

    • violater1

      Say What! That little probable lie you will have to prove to me if you can! I am betting that you pulled that out of your ass!

    • StephenFR

      Again, your knowledge is totally lacking. The Boy Scouts do not take any money from the government. They never have. They have always been a private organization. Did you know that the original Boy Scouts were founded by Lord Baden Powell? That makes them English in origin. Did you know that the Boy Scouts of America were founded off the English model in 1911. They have survived for 100 years and have NEVER taken one cent from the government. In fact their philosophy is self reliance and are very much against taking something for nothing.

      They survive by several methods. First they solicit contributions from private donors. Most of these are former boy scouts or boy scout leaders. They charge dues to the boys. They have the boys go out and perform money raising activities such as popcorn sales and car washes. First, it is required that any time a Boy Scout raises money it must be for something that returns value. They are not allowed to just ask for money. Second, the scout normally recieves a portion of the money in an account for them. That money is used to pay their way on activities by the troop, such as camping, summer camp, canoe trips, etc. The remainder of the money goes to the troop to help pay the expenses of the troop and quite often to help a less advantaged scout buy a uniform or pay their dues.
      So, Humanist, you know absolutely nothing about the Boy Scouts, so if I were you I would quit while I am behind.

    • Humanist11

      In early 2005, Congress passed a resolution expressing a sense of the Congress that the Department of Defense should support BSA activities through the use of military personnel, federal land use, and other assistance for their massive Jamborees. The 2005 Jamboree cost taxpayers approximately $8 million.

      In July 2005, Judge Manning, a federal court judge in Illinois, issued an injunction against the Defense Department spending money to support future Jamborees. The Department of Defense appealed this ruling.

      In January 2006, Congress included the "Support Our Scouts Act of 2005" in its defense authorization bill. This law requires the Department of Defense to provide at least the same level of support for the BSA's national and world Jamborees as in past years. This law also requires any state or local government entity that receives Community Development Block Grant money from the Department of Housing and Urban Development to allow BSA to have meetings in their facilities or on their property. This requirement would override any of these entities' own anti-discrimination laws or regulations forbidding access to a discriminatory group such as the BSA.

      In 2008, Congress voted to pass the "Boy Scouts of America Centennial Commemorative Coin Act" (H.R. 5872). The bill mandated that the U.S. Mint create and sell as many as 350,000 one dollar coins commemorating the Scouts' centennial in the year 2010. A ten dollar surcharge on each coin goes directly to the Boy Scouts of America, who will net as much as $3.5 million in the deal.

    • fliteking

      Humanist11 prefers punishing children, specifically boy scouts, in a twisted and non-coherent effort to further murder of the innocent and allow gay men the ability to force their way into a private function.

      You OK Girl? Shoot any dogs recently?

    • Strait Arrow


    • Humanist11

      Yes! That is how I feel about BSA. At least planned parenthood actually saves lives by providing birth control so fewer women have to make that tough choice.

    • Tout

      HUMANIST Saves lives ???? All they do is killing lives.

    • Humanist11

      How many people died in the great flood? Nobody can kill like your god.

      Exodus 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

      2 Chronicles 15:12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;
      15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

      Deuteronomy 22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
      22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

    • HealLore

      BSA by definition is a cultural organization. This means they have a specific focus for even existing, its not a one stop shop Walmart that can be guided by public opinion. For Simplicity sake let's call their "focus" BLUE, UPS and others of the world want to force their focus to be RED. If they give in and change to RED what does that say about their original intent or what does that say about how effective they will be going forward with the people who interact with that organization? How much can you trust an organization that cannot stick to their original intent? Let's consider the harm in forcing them to change from their ways.
      What if the process of growing up to be a man involves Natural Selection making the more informed choice for your culture? At some point we can see the complications of teaching young boys this is ok, then you have a much larger population of Male/Male relationships and Natural Selection takes effect on the population.
      Or maybe from a big picture we forcing all organizations to trust in Invitro baby making, or are we holding on to Science and believe in Natural Selection is more valuable to our culture than short cuts or cheats in the system?
      But wait isn't that an oxymoron? Science has led us to believe the hormones decide what gender we seek, not emotions, or decisions. Don't we need to pick at some point in which we believe in science or not? or is this a buffet of which things sound good so I'll take a little of this and discard that?
      If you put food or sex in front of a male he is going to try and take it, even with rules and people trying to hold him back, it is what males are designed to do. Culture cant even stop that. We see it constantly with marriages falling apart because a woman wants it to me one on one, but a man is biologically trained to spread his seed at all costs, just like eating. A woman wont hesitate to abandon her husband to protect her baby, yet in our culture her instinct is more valuable than a mans instinct to spread his seed. At what point do we think messing with our culture groups such as the BSA is going to help us become better civilizations? Let's take a high level approach from a culture perspective. If there is a need for a HomoBoys club, it will get create by another culture group if our culture chooses to head down that path... not because our culture was forced...

    • Humanist11

      A woman's reproductive health is much more complicated than a man's. I've already posted a few examples where the federal government donated resources that cost the taxpayers millions. Just google it and be honest with yourself when you read it.

    • lorlan4

      Does that apply to just the BSA or to all the other programs that the government gives to?

    • Humanist11

      That would apply to any organization that discriminates on the basis of sex, sexual preference, religion or race. It is the federal law. Other organizations would include the KKK, any religion or Nazi Youth. I do realize BSA is not as overt as those groups, but the concept is the same.

    • lorlan4

      Sure seems that these companies seem to think there are enough homo's to support them, if and when the majority of this country has had enough. I, too have just became a Fed-x fan, and if they decide to do something stupid, there qre always other options. Better be careful with your business in these fragile times!!!

    • JJM123

      My beliefs exactly. When I am given the choice of UPS, FedEx or USPS I will avoid the black truck.

  • retiredmillwright

    There is a complete lack of common sense in many things
    today. Where does the fox go to kill chickens? To the hen house. Are you going to put the fox in the henhouse
    and give him free reign to do what foxes do? Are you going to let to give
    homosexuals a free reign to molest your children and grandchildren? Would you want your young children to be
    under the charge of an openly gay scoutmaster? I would not, I want to protect
    my grandchildren and hope other people want to protect their children too. Boycott UPS, they don’t have enough common
    sense to be carrying my packages anymore.

    • Adrian Salsgiver

      If you put the child in the hands of a government thug, the kid will be sodomized up the butt. An openly gay scoutmaster is more likely to be more protective of youth than any brutal cops who beat the kid bloody, take him downtown, get him naked and torture him.

    • retiredmillwright

      When you have a gay serial killer, they kill young people,
      sometimes by the dozens. We had a case like that here some years ago, the gay
      serial killers killed and buried several dozen young males all over our area. John
      Gacy in Chicago did the same thing there. I know all gays aren't serial killers but there are enought to make me leary of having a gay scoutmaster.

    • Noni77


    • Humanist11

      You sir skipped or slept through psychology in school. Homosexuality and child molestation are not connected. There are deviates on both sides to be sure. Child molestation is a mental sickness where homosexuality is a minority norm that affects 8-10% of all humans and does no harm. Do normal straight men feel the need to have sex with every female they think is attractive? Of course not. Seek out opinions that are different than yours and make up your own mind using facts instead of what you are spoon fed by the church.

    • Eddie Nelson

      Follow this logic: A male human that sodomizes another male human or receives sexual gratification from another male human is a homosexual. A male human that molests another male human by sodomy or by gaining sexual gratification from another male human being, regardless of the age, is a homosexual. Therefore, any adult male that molests a male child is a homosexual.

    • violater1

      Minority norm my aching ass! Homosexuals are mentally deranged individuals and you know it regardless of the excuses you prefer to come up with! How can a man ever desire the sex of a man when a women is definitely designed to please and be the partner of a man! One thing about you Homos you are a dying class of people for you cannot reproduce you can only seduce others wrongly and with consequences down the road, toad! I love your narciscisim of yourself and the ill fated portriats that you paint! You like so many other liberals have the definite bad habit of not living your lives without wanting to force you ways of life on others! The AIDS producers are a minority yea!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!

    • V Christine Bingham

      If the Boy Scouts don't filter out the homosexual men, then the Scouting Organizations become a magnet for those who prey on boys. Just like some churches and colleges where young men congregate have had horrific incidents of the same. Would God that churches and colleges were as stalwart as the Boy Scouts in adhering to their upstanding credos.

    • Humanist11

      Homosexuals are all around us whether you know it or not. They are in every career field, including the military and NFL! True homosexuals like Sally Ride, Greg Louganis, Billy Jean King, J. Edgar Hoover, Rock Hudson, Ralph Waldo Emerson and James Dean are well adjusted people who make excellent role models for our kids. They are simply attracted to members of the same sex like we are to the opposite sex. The BSA needs to filter out child molesters, not homosexuals.

    • StephenFR

      Interesting, but wrong, again;

      "In his 1948 book, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male,
      Alfred Kinsey shocked the world by announcing that 10% of the male
      population is gay. A 1993 Janus Report estimated that nine percent
      of men and five percent of women had more than "occasional"
      homosexual relationships. The 2000 U.S. Census Bureau found that
      homosexual couples constitute less than 1% of American households.
      The Family Research Report says "around 2-3% of men, and 2% of
      women, are homosexual or bisexual." The National Gay and Lesbian
      Task Force estimates three to eight percent of both sexes. So who's
      right -- what percentage of the population is homosexual?"

      Concerning whether gays are pedophiles, all one can actually say is that 100% of male on male pedophilia is instigated by a gay or bisexual male.

      Now interestingly enough, the Boy Scouts have a few rules and as you actually have no idea here they are.
      There is no rule concerning the actual scout being gay. Of course at 10 years old most kids have no clue as to sexuality. Child molestation is the first requirement for the first rank in the Boy Scouts and it must be done with a parent or guardian.
      There is no rule that the son of a gay person can not be a scout. Know of several boys who have at least one gay parent. Frankly we don't care.
      There is a rule that states that people who profess that they are gay can not serve in a direct leadership capacity in a troop. That does not mean that they can not be involved. There are many, many positions that they could fill on what is referred to as the Committee, which actually runs the troop.
      No adult is ever allowed to be alone with any boy other than their own son, ever.
      So, if you are unwilling to go find out what the Boy Scouts really are, please shut the F up.

    • Humanist11

      I was a cub scout long ago and now that I'm all grown up I understand how the BSA POLITELY discriminates with the backing of the bible. It is full of verses about how homosexuality and not believing in god is evil and what punishment they must endure. Please watch your language or my regard for you will decrease. Facts and opinions are good, but your personal attacks are child like.

    • StephenFR

      Humanist, I am amazed that you have such perfect recall from when you were between 5 and 9 years old. That is the age for cub scouts and has been for over 60 years. I don't recall exactly when the cubs were formed, but it was around 60 - 70 years ago. I was a scout in the late 50's and early 60's

      At any rate, the Boy Scouts do not teach a specific religion and in fact do not quote from the bible, except when the particular troop are all members of a particular church, synagog, etc. and even then it is very much the exception. Boy Scouts do say prayers. Usually once during a troop meeting, any time they break bread, at camp fires, usually at the end to thank god for the opportunity, although some of the adults are thanking God that the day is over and they can get the boys to bed, and they usually have a "Scouts own Service" if they are together on the holy day of their Church if they have time. For Christians this is Sunday and is often missed due to the leaders desire to break down camp and get home.

      There are many books of prayer for boy scouts, those books are very generic except there is often strong reference to religious beliefs of American Indians, in that around the campfire the boys prefer to reference God as the Great Spirit.

      Here is a typical prayer I copied from one of the many sites that offer scout prayers:

      Lord, we thank you for this day.
      Help us to do our best every day,
      And forgive us when we slip.
      Teach us to be kind to other people
      and to help them at all times
      Bless our parents and teachers and leaders
      and all the members of Scouting
      Bless us, Lord in your love for us
      Help us to be a better Scouts
      and let us do our best for you

      I am certain that you will somehow find that insidious.

      No one EVER speaks about ANY KIND of sexuality in front of the boys. Homo,. bi, straight, nothing, period. That is strictly forbidden and is grounds for expulsion. Sexuality is considered a conversation that should be had within the family and it is the families values that should prevail. Do the boys ever talk about? I am certain that the 16 and 17 year old's do, but they know better than to do it in front of either the younger boys or the adults.

      By the way, the rule in the boy scouts concerning homosexuality does not effect participation by any boy, and in fact does not deny an adult the possibility of working with the troop. It denies them only being in a leadership position where they are leading the boys. There are still plenty of things that they can do on the committee which is a group of parents that run everything behind the scenes from arranging camp out facilities to book keeping. There is plenty to do in the "back office".

      Boy Scouts is the only institution left where boys can go to just be with other boys and do the things that they like to do. They are in fact supposed to be run as much by the boys as possible.

      So the reality is you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I will close by again stating that you are free to live your life however you want, I really don't give a flying F. But I draw the line at your trying to tell me or anyone else what we should believe or how we should live our lives or to try to tear down the institutions that we find of benefit to either ourselves or any other member of our family, particularly as they neither do any harm to you nor do you have any idea as to what they are, or what they represent.

    • Humanist11

      I know BSA has a lot of good things to offer and I do support most of what they teach young men. It is not an evil organization my any means. The BSA takes is values from christian origin and for that reason feels that it has a right to discriminate. If it does not talk about religion (it does) or sexuality then why ban gays and atheists?

    • Joanne13

      I'm not aware that they ban atheists. Do they? Banning homosexuals is only common sense. Granted every homosexual might not be a pedophile and might limit himself to adults but I would be willing to wager that is an exception. Besides, by their very NATURE homosexuals feel having sex with another male is NORMAL and wish to present THEIR belief and way of life to all men (that would include boys) and to society as a whole.

      Give me a good reason WHY the Boy Scouts would WANT homosexuals within their ranks, considering that those in the groups are male (though I seem to remember hearing that some 'over the top' fems are trying to push girls into being accepted into the Boy Scouts.... like THAT makes sense). But I digress.... So tell me exactly why SHOULD the scouts be forced to allow homosexuals to 'teach' and 'train' those boys? Give me ONE logical reason.

    • Humanist11

      Give me ONE logical reason.

      It will teach the boys that gays are part of our society and there is no reason to discriminate against them. It would help to make them better men and more accepting of others. They would learn that homosexuality is not a choice, but something they are born with. Kind of like being born left handed in a right handed world.

      Homosexuals are just like the rest of us straight people. They just love and have sex with other consenting adults of the same sex, just like we straight folks do with our spouses. You probably know a gay person and don't even know it. They have the same dreams and goals as the rest of us and only want to be treated fairly. Nothing more, just fairly. Why not avail them of the good that BSA has to offer?

      I'm a straight male and really (I mean realllllly) like women, yet I don't try or plan to have sex with anybody but my wife of 20+ years. Why would a gay person be any different?

    • Joanne13

      Quote: "Homosexuals are just like the rest of us straight people. They just love and have sex with other consenting adults of the same sex, just like we straight folks do with our spouses."

      They're not just like the rest of us, the are deviates. They deviate from that is natural. The reasons WHY they do it aren't so important to this discussion as is the fact that their perspective of 'normal' is in fact AB-normal. They make thier choices about whether or not to be the opposite sex (normal) or to be with their own sex (abnormal). They are free to do which ever they wish UNTIL they try and force ABNORMAL behavior upon our children! THAT'S when it's an entirely different ball-game.... they want to FORCE their abnormal life-style upon ALL of society and worse yet, they EXPECT normal people (men and women) to ACCEPT their behavior AS normal when it's completely removed from normal.
      They have NO RIGHT to expect those who want to raise NORMAL, healthy boys INTO NORMAL healthy men! That's when push comes to shove and people WILL shove back!

    • Joanne13

      Quote: "Homosexuals are just like the rest of us straight people. They just love and have sex with other consenting adults of the same sex, just like we straight folks do with our spouses."

      They're not just like the rest of us, the are deviates. They deviate
      from what is natural and adhere to a belief that their perspective is 'normal' when in fact it is AB-normal. They make their OWN choices about whether or not to be with the opposite sex (normal) or to be with their own sex (abnormal). And that IS their right as human beings. God created us and gave all of us 'free will' allowing us to make up our own minds about how we want to live our lives.

      So they are free to do which ever they wish UNTIL they try and force ABNORMAL behavior upon OUR CHILDREN OR upon US! THAT'S when it's an entirely different ball-game.... they want to FORCE their abnormal life-style upon ALL of society and worse yet, they EXPECT normal people (men and women) to ACCEPT their behavior AS normal when it's completely removed from normal. The Boy Scout organization strives to raise NORMAL healthy boys to be NORMAL HEALTHY MEN.Gays have NO RIGHT to expect those parents, uncles & grandfathers to allow them NEAR their children! That's when push comes to shove and people WILL shove back!

      I lived across the street from a lesbian couple for MANY years. They moved quite a few years ago but it was their decision and not from any sort of discrimination, etc. We all knew they were lesbians but it was NEVER made into a big deal. You know why? Because they lived their SEXUAL lives IN PRIVATE, never once trying to FORCE their sexual life-style upon their neighbors. They lived their lives as they wished and we all led happy lives (and raised our children) on the same street, knowing the same people. BUT... if they'd have tried to force their beliefs upon their neighbors you can BET things wouldn't have been so peaceful. However they RESPECTED their neighbors and their neighbors RESPECTED their right to live as they wished. THAT is what creates a peaceful world... something we'd ALL like to enjoy again... but for RADICAL homosexuals and lesbians!

      When I hear and see homosexuals of today being belligerent and trying to force their life-style upon the rest of society I get angry and want to fight back! I'm opposed to that life-style (and all the other perverted sexual 'proclivities' of abnormal people) #1 because God calls it SIN and #2 because I want to PROTECT my grandchildren from the perverted life-style(s) of those in the GLBT, etc. movement.

      By the way.... Sorry about the following post. I accidentally hit something on the key-board and it posted before I was ready to to so. I tried to delete it but all that did was to post it as a 'guest'.

    • Hunamist11

      I agree that gays should not get any special favors. They should just be treated like normal people and be allowed to do what all of us do. Nothing more. Organizations like BSA keep that from happening.

    • retiredmillwright

      Humanistm , I have lived Sixty some odd years and have paid
      attention to what goes on around me. I knew a few pedophiles that everyone
      thought were just harmless gays. I worked around these people and knew them
      many years, they were likeable people. Later they also turned out
      to be pedophiles, one was executed for
      murder of a child and another spent time in prison for molesting small boys, so
      you never know what some of these people are until it’s too late. I don’t want
      to take a chance that a person that might molest children would end up as
      scoutmaster. You need to open your eyes Humanist and pay attention to what goes
      on outside of your books, and consider boycotting UPS.

  • fliteking

    | > The real issue most folks have is with the insistence by Liberals that men who are gay be given the opportunity to be Scout Masters.

    Posed a different way, according to liberals, and now UPS, conservatives are bigots if they refuse to allow gay men to take their boys camping.

    Liberals really are some demented f*ck-d up people.

    • Elton Robb

      Perhaps we should let pederasts choose to live near liberal houses so they can see how sick pederasty is.

    • violater1

      Right you are!